Here’s the tenth episode from Adjutants Lounge, all rights are Ben and Phil.

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Transcript

00:00:06 Ben Skipper

Hello and welcome to part 10 of the Russian war with the Hutchins Lounge. Today, I'm joined by fellow presenter Doctor Phil Blood. Hello, doctor Phil.

00:00:18 Philip Blood

Hi, Ben, afternoon.

00:00:21 Ben Skipper

Afternoon and.

00:00:24 Ben Skipper

I'll sort of champions join us quite a few Times Now, Dustin Ducane, legal counsel. Dustin, how are you?

00:00:32 Dustin Du Cane

Fine. Thank you, Ben.

00:00:33 Ben Skipper

'S excellent stuff. So today we're gonna be talking about several topics.

00:00:39 Ben Skipper

Which sort of very much relevant to what's going on in the in Ukraine at the moment.

00:00:46 Ben Skipper

So I'm, you know, I've been very kindly pushed up front first, just to discuss the their cultural situation because of being this is a very, this is a developing story lots going on at the.

00:00:58 Ben Skipper

Moment.

00:01:02 Ben Skipper

Most recently have been some figures released by the Ministry of Agrarian Policy and Food of Ukraine. These are released. These are actually quite recent, so this is stuff that was released on the 20th of June yesterday, and it's concerned exports.

00:01:21 Ben Skipper

They've been they've done some comparative studies already and now do bear in mind that some of the export figures will include stocks that are held over. So this is things such as cereals.

00:01:36 Ben Skipper

Which is their their main export, which we'll come onto in a minute. The figures are actually quite alarming. So cereals and legumes, the last year total export was forced around, then some trying to work out how they're giving it. I presume this is 1000 tonnes.

00:01:56 Ben Skipper

So we're talking millions, actually. So 48 almost 14,000,000 tonnes of exports last year.

00:02:04 Ben Skipper

For 2021 so far this year.

00:02:09 Ben Skipper

777,000 tonnes. So we're halfway through the year of which.

00:02:17 Ben Skipper

Wheat is understandably.

00:02:20 Ben Skipper

The big drop last year there was almost well just over 18 and a half million tonnes of export so far 63,000 tonnes.

00:02:30 Ben Skipper

Barley just over 5 and a half million tonnes last.

00:02:35 Ben Skipper

Year.

00:02:36 Ben Skipper

21,000 tonnes.

00:02:39 Ben Skipper

Why not a huge growing crop in Ukraine for a host of reasons, there's been no exports to that this year.

00:02:49 Ben Skipper

And this figure is is replicated throughout other flowers.

00:02:54 Ben Skipper

No wheat flour.

00:02:55 Ben Skipper

Uh.

00:02:59 Ben Skipper

Very small, 90,000 tonnes.

00:03:02 Ben Skipper

So it's fair to say that regardless of what happens now in terms of exporting, utilising the new rail network that Ukraine had started to put into place in 2019, which would feed to southeast Poland into the US general.

00:03:21 Ben Skipper

It's not gonna make a world of difference, and I know that there's been a lot of discussion about the the blocking of ports in the Black Sea and the sea.

00:03:28 Ben Skipper

Valves.

00:03:28 Ben Skipper

Off will make a huge difference to just not getting the stuff out because probably the infrastructure isn't there. A lot of the infrastructure for growing.

00:03:39 Ben Skipper

Is so being dry.

00:03:40

Word.

00:03:42 Ben Skipper

Russians have stolen a huge amount of seeds, dressed and otherwise. I've heard various reports and this is the issue. There's lots within the within the economy world. We're hearing lots of bits and pieces. Apparently all the the the the dress seed for wheat, for the eastern side of the country.

00:04:03 Ben Skipper

Has been taken by the Russians so they can have a good crop this coming here and the same with the sunflowers.

00:04:09 Ben Skipper

Just to put that into perspective, a lot of people were sort of a little bit worried about this.

00:04:16 Ben Skipper

For production over 2018-2019.

00:04:21 Ben Skipper

Ukraine was 1234.

00:04:24 Ben Skipper

The eighth biggest production of of wheat.

00:04:30 Ben Skipper

Their exports were the they were the 5th largest behind the EU, Canada, USA and Russia, and unsurprisingly, they didn't do any import.

00:04:44 Ben Skipper

What's interesting in the the import export is that.

00:04:48 Ben Skipper

Nowhere in that sort of top ten of import of of exporters is China.

00:04:53 Ben Skipper

In fact, they don't really feature a great deal 20/18/19 growth patterns. India does.

00:05:03 Ben Skipper

So, how's this all interlinked? So India this year not having a great grave season, they've just had a huge heat wave, which has been followed by an unseasonably bad monsoon. I don't know if you've seen some of the pictures out there. This is gonna pretty much knacker the crops, especially cereals and rice, China on the other hand.

00:05:25 Ben Skipper

They've had an interesting one. They've been affected more by the by the lack of fuel. This has led to this led.

00:05:30 Ben Skipper

To a little.

00:05:31 Ben Skipper

Bit of a unrest in certain parts of China because farms have been able to get the fuel to the machinery. Central government have stepped in. Finally, pardon me. One of the main concerns have been, of course, the inability of Russia.

00:05:46 Ben Skipper

To do its exports of its NPK fertilisers, so just to eat crap N use an oxygen which is needed for the growth of plant.

00:05:56 Ben Skipper

P is phosphorus, which promotes root growth.

00:06:00 Ben Skipper

And almonds, fruit and flowers, which is exceptionally important for all plants. More so for things such as potatoes and chewy base plants.

00:06:12 Ben Skipper

And fruit and the K is potassium, which helps the.

00:06:17 Ben Skipper

Which basically powers the machinery of the biological machinery of the plants in terms of moving nutrients and water around.

00:06:24 Ben Skipper

Now this is something that the Soviets were very good at, and it's carried on into post Soviet Russia is the mixing of MPK fertiliser. They were so good at.

00:06:33 Ben Skipper

It the Americans used to buy it.

00:06:37 Ben Skipper

But they didn't produce necessarily all the right quantities.

00:06:43 Ben Skipper

To to to do the various mixes because you it's not a simple case of getting all three elements together, banging in a bag, giving it a good shake, and throwing it on the land. Everything is relative and it has to reflect the the environment in which it's going into the soil it's going on to and the crop.

00:06:59 Ben Skipper

So it's a very specialised job. Now China have have been experimenting and they've been doing a lot of work over the past few years in developing their own processes.

00:07:11 Ben Skipper

They've surprised a lot of people by saying, yes, well, we can now do.

00:07:13 Ben Skipper

This, along with the.

00:07:14 Ben Skipper

Indians and the other sort of the the, the, the early Chinese claims of being.

00:07:19 Ben Skipper

Able.

00:07:19 Ben Skipper

To pardon me, export cereals seem they seem to be now downplaying these, which again, is is worrisome.

00:07:26 Ben Skipper

Because.

00:07:29 Ben Skipper

The Southern African countries, which have relied previously on Russian and Ukraine exports, may not be getting them so.

00:07:39 Ben Skipper

This now leads us to a new to a further development of what's going on in the agricultural world, but all of.

00:07:44 Ben Skipper

This that.

00:07:45 Ben Skipper

Hungary, I believe yesterday.

00:07:49 Ben Skipper

Have announced and southeast Poland have announced that they're going to accept hubs for grain transportation through the EU.

00:07:56 Ben Skipper

This will get trained grain into the meaner countries most definitely, but these, these these sort of exports will be supplemented by the EU stocks that they have. Ukraine of course will be keeping as many of their stocks at home as possible understanding because they're at war.

00:08:16 Ben Skipper

Satori in Africa is looked pretty stable up until a few weeks ago, but because the environmental changes and hits on growth in India, this could actually change. And this is where things get a little bit worrisome, because how are the? How are the Chinese going to?

00:08:36 Ben Skipper

Address the lack of.

00:08:38 Ben Skipper

Cereals that they're gonna stop. You know, that's actually actually gonna occur.

00:08:45 Ben Skipper

I'm still keeping an eye out on all agronomy sites, especially people like migro, because Ukrainians are still very much keeping an eye on it and this they're another one.

00:09:02 Ben Skipper

As as well as the UN, I think.

00:09:05 Ben Skipper

That's wrong. I know the UN have got a team out there from various food agencies and they are looking at what land is available and how it can best be utilised. This now leads to some to the next point land.

00:09:19 Ben Skipper

So far it's it's around about 20% of land of Ukrainian geographical mass. Natural mass has been now taken by the Russians.

00:09:32 Ben Skipper

Whilst that is of course exceptionally bad news, it's probably more farming because the battle will overspill that boundary.

00:09:40 Ben Skipper

And the problem the Ukrainians are now facing, of course, is that they're gonna have to decontaminate a huge amount of farmland. You've got the EOD tasking I mentioned will be immense. It'll be astronomical impact. Everything from undetonated shells through to oil spills, fuel.

00:10:00 Ben Skipper

Bills.

00:10:01 Ben Skipper

The removal of.

00:10:04 Ben Skipper

Burnt Armoured vehicles, aviation assets that have been down and then you got bodies.

00:10:10 Ben Skipper

That will sadly be it needs to be reclaimed. With all this, you've got the lack of farm machinery, a lot of which has been taken, especially the more complicated Western vehicles, such as those produced by fent class and John Deere. Interestingly, those vehicles which have got remote access.

00:10:34 Ben Skipper

I mean that that's that can be sort of controlled remotely for security reasons. They've all had their disable, they've all had their disable eyes as activated.

00:10:46 Ben Skipper

Fence did with one of the first to do it follow quite quickly by John Deere. John Deere apparently have also been using their Starfire 6000 GPS services.

00:10:57 Ben Skipper

To locate stolen assets and a lot are cropping up, but they're not saying where, so it's quite an interesting set of affairs in terms of how the agricultural industry is helping track.

00:11:12 Ben Skipper

Stolen assets for future recovery, whether that's of course or will actually happen in realistically isn't is another matter.

00:11:23 Ben Skipper

We then move on to, you know, just to confirm what's going on with the the main crop of Ukraine, which is the sunflower.

00:11:33 Ben Skipper

That's.

00:11:35 Ben Skipper

Not even being picked upon. Yet the Ministry of Food and Agriculture policy haven't released any figures which would lead me to believe that this year any crops that are made will be for domestic only.

00:11:49 Ben Skipper

This will now be picked up. This has been picked up by Canada and America and the EU.

00:11:58 Ben Skipper

By some sale, they'll be they'll be buying.

00:12:00 Ben Skipper

A.

00:12:00 Ben Skipper

Lot of seed seed storage plant in the next.

00:12:03 Ben Skipper

In the next six months to sort of cover that area and once that leave us where the consumer, well, your prices are already going up. If you you know if you I'm sure you've noticed.

00:12:14 Ben Skipper

UK.

00:12:16 Ben Skipper

6 lbs a bottle is now the norm for 500 mil.

00:12:20 Ben Skipper

I had a quick look at a a couple of sites the other day and crisp and dry, which is quite a popular brand in.

00:12:27 Ben Skipper

The UK.

00:12:28 Ben Skipper

Cheapest I could find was £7.50, so it is having a long term effect.

00:12:36 Philip Blood

Can I just add?

00:12:39

Hmm.

00:12:41 Philip Blood

Not my figures, but the lady doing her shopping.

00:12:47 Philip Blood

The cost of sunflower oil is increased now to 400% since Christmas.

00:12:55 Philip Blood

When she can get it, there's cause. There's huge gaps on the shelves.

00:12:59 Philip Blood

The the amount of food in the shops and the normal household foods we're looking at price increases from Christmas from 25 to 45%. If you go back to September, I've actually seen that bread.

00:13:17 Philip Blood

Contrary to.

00:13:19 Philip Blood

General opinion has increased by 75%.

00:13:26 Philip Blood

Not so much impact on beer yet, but the prices have steadily increased.

00:13:34 Philip Blood

And that's just the situation in Germany. I went for a little shop.

00:13:40 Philip Blood

On Saturday, cause it was exhaustingly hot.

00:13:43 Philip Blood

And just to say, a bottle of lemonade. Well water with lemon spice.

00:13:50 Philip Blood

A coke.

00:13:52 Philip Blood

And one bottle of beer was just under €5.

00:13:57 Philip Blood

Which?

00:13:59 Philip Blood

I thought was extraordinarily expensive for Germany.

00:14:03 Philip Blood

Given that before Christmas I've had it done the same, it probably would have been about €2.50.

00:14:11 Ben Skipper

It it? Yeah, I mean the prices are going up.

00:14:15 Ben Skipper

And I especially our foodstuffs.

00:14:19 Philip Blood

The the The the German rate of interest rate of inflation is 7.8% as of the 20th of June this year. It's been skyrocketing since Christmas. It was going up anyway.

00:14:34 Philip Blood

And the average in Europe is 7.4.

00:14:39 Philip Blood

The lowest is Malta, the highest is Lithuania with 15% malts, is about 4 1/2.

00:14:45 Philip Blood

Poland's running at about 10.5.

00:14:49 Philip Blood

France is 5.4, which kind of bucking the trend.

00:14:55 Philip Blood

If you look, if you dig down into those inflationary rates, the thing that's interesting is nearly every nation is talking about.

00:15:06 Philip Blood

Large hikes in groceries. Household.

00:15:10 Philip Blood

And fuel and fuel is.

00:15:13 Philip Blood

The big one here.

00:15:16 Philip Blood

Because obviously with gas being turned off on Friday.

00:15:21 Philip Blood

And then debates whether we should have coal-fired and what have you that's that's that. But that debate is now raging. But if you dig down.

00:15:32 Philip Blood

These cost of living price hikes, the scale of inflation.

00:15:39 Philip Blood

And then the shortages of food.

00:15:41 Philip Blood

Which of course has consequences for famine. So what we're looking at from a strategic perspective.

00:15:48 Philip Blood

Is.

00:15:51 Philip Blood

Quite a perilous situation for all global leaders, and somewhere in this I don't actually believe that Russia's very.

00:15:59 Philip Blood

Very safe.

00:16:01 Ben Skipper

No, it's not. And it's interesting you say it's no, we we we sort of return to food and when when we're talking about.

00:16:08 Ben Skipper

Food. I think with that there is this automatic default setting the food for humans.

00:16:15 Ben Skipper

Any in regards to to Ukraine sort of cultural exports?

00:16:22 Ben Skipper

You know, it's big ones are sunflower, wheat, soybean, but it's biggest it's a forage crop which is corn on the cob or maize.

00:16:33 Ben Skipper

And.

00:16:35 Ben Skipper

That's that's not gonna be, you know, a lot of that isn't gonna be ready for harvest and and any that's sort of produced this year, I would imagine will be retained for.

00:16:49 Ben Skipper

Domestic purposes.

00:16:51 Philip Blood

Bettina here for her horses. They're not her horses, but she goes riding, doing stable work for her, for her leisure.

00:17:00 Philip Blood

She bakes oatmeal cakes.

00:17:07 Philip Blood

And that's a little way of helping out with the horse owner because of the costs of feed.

00:17:13 Ben Skipper

Yeah.

00:17:13 Philip Blood

So we have huge baskets of.

00:17:16 Philip Blood

Oatmeal cake.

00:17:20 Ben Skipper

And any and it's interesting. I was speaking with some colleagues yesterday and seed prices here in the UK are are really rocketing in in some quarters and it's all fed by global inflation, global uncertainty and the fuel cost. You know we the costs to move this.

00:17:39 Ben Skipper

Enough about and we we we literally at the moment have almost the very beginning. So I don't like using the term of a perfect storm in terms of food security and food cost and it's worrisome and it and it it is exacerbated by what's going on in the central and Eastern Europe.

00:17:55 Ben Skipper

Because we a lot of people are focusing on what you know, the Ukrainian imports foodstuffs are, it'd be interesting to see how Russian food exports are sorry and what their impact will be.

00:18:15 Ben Skipper

Because Ukraine, Ukraine does export normal lot of food, ironically to China. And I think in the past they've sort of partially sell some of that on. So this goes back to the Chinese early Chinese claims of being able to support some horror horror in Africa. I think they probably felt they could do that before they were hit by their own.

00:18:35 Ben Skipper

Problems earlier in the year and again going back to the environmental changes a couple of years ago, the where the Russians are currently sort of in that Donbas area along the eastern edge of the country, there was a severe drought period for the growing period of 2018-2019 and.

00:18:55 Ben Skipper

What was produced was either reasonable quality, but it wasn't great and yields were down.

00:19:03 Ben Skipper

So it would be interesting to see.

00:19:07 Ben Skipper

What happens?

00:19:11 Ben Skipper

In the long run there with with these environmental changes and again just sort of going back to to the Russian.

00:19:17 Ben Skipper

Russia imports a huge amount of food.

00:19:21 Ben Skipper

Predominantly dairy.

00:19:25 Ben Skipper

And pork.

00:19:29 Ben Skipper

So just be interesting how they.

00:19:32 Ben Skipper

They get by and whether that they can fill in that natural loss and I'd be interested to see if they are as part of their, their reallocation and water resources, what they're taking terms of lifestyle because I, I I've struggled to find anything, I know they've been taking seed, they've been taking stored grain, they've been taking weed, they've been taking milled stuffs and pressed.

00:19:52 Ben Skipper

Early processed foods, but I'm struggling to find anything around.

00:19:58 Ben Skipper

Beef, beef stock, pig or poultry. But I would assume they're doing the same and this then leads on to what you're writing about in terms of are we now seeing, you know, the the, the application of a wider?

00:20:15 Ben Skipper

Form of food theft in the area, you know, destabilising indigenous food stocks as part of the wider programme towards genocide.

00:20:29 Philip Blood

What's interesting about what you're talking about?

00:20:34 Philip Blood

It's just how many times the the issue of famine has hit Europe.

00:20:43 Philip Blood

Especially during wartime.

00:20:45 Philip Blood

The the, The, the German imposed famine of 19 the winter of 19/16/1917 was literally the ineptitude of Ludendorff and Hindenburg. They quite literally slaughtered all the livestock thinking.

00:21:02 Philip Blood

That was the way to save the army.

00:21:04 Philip Blood

And they and and in the mass slaughter of pulp of pigs and cattle and everything else.

00:21:13 Philip Blood

They caused.

00:21:17 Philip Blood

What became the the cabbage winter? I think it was called. Anyway. It was a huge hunger and that and that hunger.

00:21:25 Philip Blood

Stayed in the cultural memory of Germans and Europeans right away through. So when Hitler came to power, and of course, you see the hunger plan of 1941 just before they go into Russia.

00:21:41 Philip Blood

The the opening sections of that, if I recall.

00:21:45 Philip Blood

Basically suggested that we're not going to have a return to the 19/16/17 hunger plan and you think, well, OK, that's in wartime situation, but if you were to look at Tim Mason's examination of social policy in the Third Reich, you will see all the trade union officials.

00:22:05 Philip Blood

Before the Nazis came to power, we're thinking in terms of how we avoid the hunger.

00:22:13 Philip Blood

What I was actually also looking at was how how much hunger came from the collapse after the great crash in 1929.

00:22:27 Philip Blood

And that caused huge amounts of poverty, hunger and unemployment.

00:22:32 Philip Blood

No.

00:22:33 Philip Blood

I mean we.

00:22:35 Philip Blood

We tend to think mostly of inflation and unemployment generated by the hyperinflation of Vima. What we actually forget is certain areas, especially in the.

00:22:48 Philip Blood

Valleys along the the the German, Belgian, French border.

00:22:56 Philip Blood

Large amounts of.

00:23:00 Philip Blood

Then of course, when you get into the Second World War, everybody thinks, well, the Germans imposed hunger. But the the the thing was, in 1940 there was a huge feed loss.

00:23:12 Philip Blood

In Europe.

00:23:14 Philip Blood

And.

00:23:16 Philip Blood

The hunting officials fed.

00:23:20 Philip Blood

Feed the deer.

00:23:22 Philip Blood

Big cakes?

00:23:24 Philip Blood

Which offended the cavalry sections of the military.

00:23:28 Philip Blood

Because they wanted that feed going to their animals, they didn't want it to go to game animals. But then, which were then going to be shot by higher German civil servants, politicians and soldiers. So there's a huge.

00:23:44 Philip Blood

Fight within Nazi ranks below. Hitler. Hitler. He wasn't interested in the other kind of thing, but amongst the hoi polloi and the and the senior civil servants, the.

00:23:55 Philip Blood

Herman Gerring's crowd versus the German commands and the Austrians. There was a huge fight over food and feed, especially just before 1941. You think? Well, you know, we're going to think about more important things before we go in, invade Russia. But now they're all arguing over feed.

00:24:16 Philip Blood

And then of course.

00:24:18 Philip Blood

The Nazis imposed famine.

00:24:21 Philip Blood

As a strategic, deliberate policy.

00:24:25 Philip Blood

For the extermination of.

00:24:31 Philip Blood

Slobs.

00:24:32 Philip Blood

I mean we we I know we all focus as Holocaust and genocide historians on the destruction of jewellery. I understand that and that's right and proper. But what we also tend to forget was a deliberate starvation of slaves and the and the Nazi intention to remove the untermensch.

00:24:53 Philip Blood

Gun to mention being the Slavic peoples and the in the long run.

00:24:59 Philip Blood

When you see the construction of places like Auschwitz with the solid chip chambers, they were to destroy large numbers of slaves who had survived the the the hunger.

00:25:11 Philip Blood

So you see a A a much deeper institutional process of extermination, not just for.

00:25:20 Philip Blood

The racial groups like the Jews and the Sinti, Romani and others, but also to take out an entire people in terms of an indigenous zone, the Slavic people.

00:25:32 Philip Blood

Which?

00:25:34 Philip Blood

OK, they didn't have they. They had different historical routes to Europe and yet the Germans, the German Aryanization thinking in within the Nazi philosophy was for eradicating that that the the Slavic people and to a certain extent.

00:25:53 Philip Blood

It's a similar kind of mindset. It's not, obviously, it's not exactly the same because it's Germans, Russians, but there's a certain.

00:26:01 Philip Blood

View when you look at what Putin's doing with food and with his ideas of genocide and removal of Ukraine, we are certainly getting into a situation where the eradication of the Ukrainians, either through what I call the Holocaust of artillery or through famine.

00:26:22 Philip Blood

Is extremely.

00:26:24 Philip Blood

Concerning and, we should be deeply concerned.

00:26:27 Philip Blood

There's people, not the cattle nationality, rubbish that's going on there. This is a humanitarian. This is a huge humanitarian disaster and I keep going on about it.

00:26:37 Philip Blood

I don't think people really.

00:26:39 Philip Blood

Comprehend the depth of it and what you're telling me now is what happened in Russia.

00:26:45 Philip Blood

And what happened with the allies?

00:26:48 Philip Blood

When they came to feed the Germans.

00:26:52 Philip Blood

The system has been so devastated.

00:26:56 Philip Blood

That there just was not the ability to create food within the former war zone.

00:27:03 Philip Blood

To feed the former population.

00:27:07 Philip Blood

So if you're telling me what's actually happening, is a a woeful destruction or demolition and.

00:27:18 Philip Blood

What do you call it? Ruination of agricultural lands?

00:27:23 Philip Blood

It's almost exactly the same as what the Allies suffered in trying to refeed the German people post 1945 after the war was over. So you know you're talking to me about a story which is lodged in my mind.

00:27:40 Philip Blood

Because my whole.

00:27:41 Philip Blood

My entire story of of studying the Germans since 1948 since 1848.

00:27:47 Philip Blood

And German society in European politics since 1848.

00:27:52 Philip Blood

Is is literally this huge problem with food how to feed ourselves, how to deny food of the enemy as a strategic, as a logical strategic philosophy, and how to exterminate as an ideological idea.

00:28:09 Philip Blood

And all of it is related to.

00:28:12 Philip Blood

Food famine.

00:28:16 Ben Skipper

What is interesting, and this, this and and I use this.

00:28:23 Ben Skipper

To raise this point, you know for. For me there, there's been a lot of discussion about how how Ukraine exports around wheat have been a linchpin to preventing this sort of move from hunger to starvation. And it has been pushed. And I find that very odd, that when you look at.

00:28:44 Ben Skipper

One of the you know the main exporter of wheat in the world is Russ.

00:28:49 Ben Skipper

The same country that has some of the toughest embargoes based upon it right now. Now I know that there is movement coming in out of places like Bloody Bostock there and you know, no, no, embargo is 100%.

00:29:05 Ben Skipper

Proof. There's always a way around it, but I I I find it the the more even as I'm talking. I I find it really quite concerning that we we're talking about.

00:29:16 Ben Skipper

The possibility of.

00:29:18 Ben Skipper

Disting possibility of of hunger in certain areas and yet new, you know, in the back of our minds should be first and foremost the the biggest exporter of wheat not producing because there's a there's a bit of a difference here. The biggest exporter of wheat is Russia.

00:29:38 Ben Skipper

And you know the the whilst.

00:29:42 Ben Skipper

And then that hasn't been discussed. So this then leaves me to sort of further to consider this theme, as have the Russians knowingly, now weaponized?

00:29:53 Ben Skipper

Their wheat stock.

00:29:57 Ben Skipper

As leverage.

00:29:59 Ben Skipper

To perhaps future discussions around.